You'll note that 'any' is properly divided into -two- distinct phonemes, and hence, two syllables.
You cannot say 'any' without changing the way your mouth is making the sound of the word; the mouth closes somewhat, the tongue comes forward in the mouth and touches the roof of the mouth when the 'y' bit is said, which is distinctly different to how your mouth makes the 'an' part of the word.)
I know this is an Am-English dictionary, but it says the same in my Brit-English dictionary as well.
Technically, I think you're wrong in calling them 'phonemes'. The 'ny' bit can clearly be divided into smaller units of sound: /n/ and /i/. Maybe the word you're looking for is 'feet'? I'm not hip to the whole syllable thing.
Very crudely (can't be arsed unicoding myself up some proper IPA symbols), the word 'anyone' would be represented as something like this, with the period symbol representing syllable breaks: /e.ni.wun/
I'd totally love to hear how you woudl say 'anyone' as a two syllable word. I'm trying really hard, but it don't sound like English to me. :(
Anyone should be 'any-one' as far as I'm concerned, I think dividing 'any' seems pointless. That may not be gramtically correct, but to me it makes sense.
Anyone should be 'any-one' as far as I'm concerned, I think dividing 'any' seems pointless. That may not be gramtically correct, but to me it makes sense.
I think the problem here is we seem to have different ideas of what constitutes a syllable. I'm not sure what your definition is, but I don't think it's correct. To my knowledge, a syllable in English can't contain more than one vowel soundd, unless they are directly adjacent, as in a diphthong. But that is clearly not the case here: 'any' contains two vowel sounds separated by a consonant sound, therefore I can't see how it could be counted as one syllable.
Regarding correct syllable division as 'pointless', I am at a loss. What do you mean? What do you see are the intentions of syllable division anyway? And why does 'any.one' have more of a point than 'a.ny.one'?
Grammar fascism is so 'my-first-messageboard'.
Please forgive my phonological fascism (if, indeed, this discussion has seemed fascist to you). It was kindly and sincerely meant.
Of course I wasn't implying your post was fascistic in any way, but I generally do get annoyed about gramatical wrangling on the internet, seeing as its a much more instant form of communication than the academic essay.
Again, I said that I would happily admit to it being in breach of grammar rules, I just like 'any' better as being one syllable. Doesn't linguistics as a discipline (like all disciplines)have some kind of discursive power-relationship thingy happening with it anyway? At the end of the day, its really very unimportant, my haiku was a bit of an anti-haiku anyway.
Sometimes I feel the same way about Haiku as I do about Film-Star Buddhism and rock-musician veganism.
Of course I wasn't implying your post was fascistic in any way, but I generally do get annoyed about gramatical wrangling on the internet, seeing as its a much more instant form of communication than the academic essay.
Good. I didn't want to cause any bad feelings because of misunderstanding. :)
I'm kool with language error on the internet and on mobile telephones, as long as the outcome is successful in its communication. This situation was probably a little bit more volatile, because of the haiku-is-structurally-rigid belief. Feel free to look down on people because they correct internet users who use 'who' when 'whom' is typically appropriate (I look down on them too, but don't tell anyone. ;) ).
Sometimes I feel the same way about Haiku as I do about Film-Star Buddhism and rock-musician veganism.
I heartily agree with that sentiment. But I am sure Sky is sincere about it, so I'm endeavouring to enjoy her enthusiasm without trendy cynicism. :)
Even more bonus points for the clever miss here, since I am indeed most sincere about them. I want more people to endeavour to enjoy others' enthusiasm without trendy cynicism!
Plus, also, I don't really know when 'who' and 'whom' are, respectively, appropriate.
I accidentally admitted to not knowing the proper usages of 'whom' and 'who to my superviser, and he looked like he was going to cry because of it. The 'whom' thing has a name, but I don't understand all that English grammar jive talk.
*ahem* I would like it to be clear that my cynicism is not 'trendy', it will occasionally relate to a mistrust of 'trends' but I assure you all I'm only cynical about things I think deserve it. I'm certainly very sincere about music.
Also, clearly Sky is sincere about Haiku, which is commendable, even if she doesn't seem to want to post many of them. :P
(Sky, this is quite long, and so please excise large chunks as you see fit. It's your LJ, after all- DM) _____ A great deal of poetry, however, has been preserved. The government gave it special encouragement, and from early in the tenth century the court issued a series of imperial (i.e. official) collections of Japanese poems. The most important of these is the first, the 'Kokinshu' ('Poems Ancient and Modern'), completed about 905. The 'Kokinshu' has a total of 1,111 poems, divided into twenty books. The seasons or nature constitute the theme of the first six books; love accounts for another five. Other topics are parting, travel, laments, and auspicious occasions (for example, occasions designed to exalt the imperial persons, as Shonagon accounts in her 'Pillow Book'- DM). A small group of courtier poets, under the direction of Ki no Tsurayuki (?-946), was responsible for collecting and editing the poems.
Although the 'Kokinshu' contains some old poems, the majority of poets represented were still alive at the time of compilation. One result of this is that whereas the 'Manyoshu' is noted for its relatively large number of long poems, most Kokinshu verses are short poems or 'tanka'. This was a refined form which had five lines arranged in 5, 7, 5, 7, 7 syllables. It was favoured by ninth century poets, and so great was the prestige of the first imperial anthology that 'tanka' became the standard form of classical Japanes poetry.
Not only in the form of its poems, but also in their authorship and underlying spirit, the 'Kokinshu' stands as a monument to the general attitudes of the age that produced it. It includes some notable pieces by women, and the studied elegance, wit and technical skill which characterise the collection are hallmarks of a cultivated society with a good knowledge of Chinese literary traditions. Several of these traits appear in the following poem, which is one of the many contributed by Tsurayuki himself.
'Sakurabana, Chirinuru kaze no, Nagori ni wa
Mizu naki sora ni, Nami zo tachikeru.'
(In the eddies, Of the wind, That scattered the cherry blossoms
Waves indeed rose, In a waterless sky.)
Here, strict form is combined with a pleasing succession of sounds. Furthermore, there is a brilliant picture in terms of sea and sky and fallen blossom being blown up and down in the wind.
Even when nature was their theme, Heian poets usually saw it through the eyes of inveterate city-dwellers who were mainly concerned with the private emotional satisfaction of social relations. Heian society was definitely urban, not rustic; and its poetry was man-centred (!- DM), not god- or nature-centred. One 'tanka' by Ono no Komachi, a famous ninth century beauty and poetess whose triumphs must have aroused much envy, expresses this clearly. Komachi's idea is that there is no hatred so bad as self-hatred, and she wrote:
'Utsutsu ni wa, Sa mo koso arame, Yume ni sae, Hitome wo moru to, Miru ga wabishisa.'
(In reality, It may well have to be; But even in my dreams, To see myself shrink from others' eyes, Is truly sad.)
The two following 'Kokinshu' poems are probably fairly early works, as their authorship was no longer known at the beginning of the tenth century. Each in its own way is an example of Heian poetry at its best, with technique used to enhance genuine feeling rather than simply for its own sake, and although they both rely on nature to some extent, the feeling they evoke is directed more toward some other person:
'Aki no ta no, Ho no ue wo terasu, Inazuma no, Ware ya wasururu.'
(Can I forget you- Even for the time it takes, A flash of lightning, To shine across, The autumn fields of corn?)
'Honobono ta, Akashi no ura no, Asagiri ni, Shimagakureyuku, Fune wo shi zo omou.'
(My thoughts are with a ship, That slips island-hid, Dimly, dimly, Through the morning mist, On Akashi bay.) _____
OT, this is completely bizarre. It's 2:15am, and Sean 'Puffy' Combs is on an informercial hawking Pro-Active Formula. Apparently, Pro Active is his solution to healthy skin.
I like the smallness of it. I like the structure- it feels right in my mouth. I like the way it both celebrates the smallness of its subjects and elevates them into a subject worthy of poetry. Like every other art form, it can be good and it can be bad. But there is something stark and beautiful about haiku, something humble and yet assertive of its own right to be, that appeals to me.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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how to compose some renga.
Too hard; I gave up.
:(
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Your haiku pleases me, and renga shall be made clear.
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The sound of lightning striking;
And silence returns.
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Yet elephants sell paintings.
Art students cannot.
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haikus are sorta kinda
overrated a bit?
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Is five, seven, five, and not,
Six, seven, six, chump.
Heh heh.
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The discipline of haiku
Forces clarity.
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http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=any
You'll note that 'any' is properly divided into -two- distinct phonemes, and hence, two syllables.
You cannot say 'any' without changing the way your mouth is making the sound of the word; the mouth closes somewhat, the tongue comes forward in the mouth and touches the roof of the mouth when the 'y' bit is said, which is distinctly different to how your mouth makes the 'an' part of the word.)
I know this is an Am-English dictionary, but it says the same in my Brit-English dictionary as well.
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Very crudely (can't be arsed unicoding myself up some proper IPA symbols), the word 'anyone' would be represented as something like this, with the period symbol representing syllable breaks: /e.ni.wun/
I'd totally love to hear how you woudl say 'anyone' as a two syllable word. I'm trying really hard, but it don't sound like English to me. :(
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http://www.linguistics.ucla.edu/people/zuraw/200A_2004/16StressII.pdf
http://dictionary.reference.com/help/ahd4/pronkey.html
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I hope I don't sound rude - I'm a linguistics student, so I'm really very interested, in a curious way, not a snarky way.
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Anyone should be 'any-one' as far as I'm concerned, I think dividing 'any' seems pointless. That may not be gramtically correct, but to me it makes sense.
Grammar fascism is so 'my-first-messageboard'.
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I think the problem here is we seem to have different ideas of what constitutes a syllable. I'm not sure what your definition is, but I don't think it's correct. To my knowledge, a syllable in English can't contain more than one vowel soundd, unless they are directly adjacent, as in a diphthong. But that is clearly not the case here: 'any' contains two vowel sounds separated by a consonant sound, therefore I can't see how it could be counted as one syllable.
Regarding correct syllable division as 'pointless', I am at a loss. What do you mean? What do you see are the intentions of syllable division anyway? And why does 'any.one' have more of a point than 'a.ny.one'?
Grammar fascism is so 'my-first-messageboard'.
Please forgive my phonological fascism (if, indeed, this discussion has seemed fascist to you). It was kindly and sincerely meant.
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:-)
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Again, I said that I would happily admit to it being in breach of grammar rules, I just like 'any' better as being one syllable. Doesn't linguistics as a discipline (like all disciplines)have some kind of discursive power-relationship thingy happening with it anyway? At the end of the day, its really very unimportant, my haiku was a bit of an anti-haiku anyway.
Sometimes I feel the same way about Haiku as I do about Film-Star Buddhism and rock-musician veganism.
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Good. I didn't want to cause any bad feelings because of misunderstanding. :)
I'm kool with language error on the internet and on mobile telephones, as long as the outcome is successful in its communication. This situation was probably a little bit more volatile, because of the haiku-is-structurally-rigid belief. Feel free to look down on people because they correct internet users who use 'who' when 'whom' is typically appropriate (I look down on them too, but don't tell anyone. ;) ).
Sometimes I feel the same way about Haiku as I do about Film-Star Buddhism and rock-musician veganism.
I heartily agree with that sentiment. But I am sure Sky is sincere about it, so I'm endeavouring to enjoy her enthusiasm without trendy cynicism. :)
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Plus, also, I don't really know when 'who' and 'whom' are, respectively, appropriate.
I know shockingly little about grammar.
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Also, clearly Sky is sincere about Haiku, which is commendable, even if she doesn't seem to want to post many of them. :P
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him:
I detest marking.
Ceteris Paribus, I'd
prefer to get smashed.
me:
Marking.
Ceteris paribus, I'd
rather have my latin
on sweaty dance floors.
(They are not really 'proper' haikus, but with Ceteris paribus, options are limited.)
Others are welcome to play!
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My bed seems empty
Lacking sky
I gaze at ceiling
Thank you hold the applause
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Now only partly submerged.
Evaporation.
From "A History Of Japan", Cassell, 1972.
section 1: Poetry
(Sky, this is quite long, and so please excise large chunks as you see fit. It's your LJ, after all- DM)
_____
A great deal of poetry, however, has been preserved. The government gave it special encouragement, and from early in the tenth century the court issued a series of imperial (i.e. official) collections of Japanese poems. The most important of these is the first, the 'Kokinshu' ('Poems Ancient and Modern'), completed about 905. The 'Kokinshu' has a total of 1,111 poems, divided into twenty books. The seasons or nature constitute the theme of the first six books; love accounts for another five. Other topics are parting, travel, laments, and auspicious occasions (for example, occasions designed to exalt the imperial persons, as Shonagon accounts in her 'Pillow Book'- DM). A small group of courtier poets, under the direction of Ki no Tsurayuki (?-946), was responsible for collecting and editing the poems.
Although the 'Kokinshu' contains some old poems, the majority of poets represented were still alive at the time of compilation. One result of this is that whereas the 'Manyoshu' is noted for its relatively large number of long poems, most Kokinshu verses are short poems or 'tanka'. This was a refined form which had five lines arranged in 5, 7, 5, 7, 7 syllables. It was favoured by ninth century poets, and so great was the prestige of the first imperial anthology that 'tanka' became the standard form of classical Japanes poetry.
Not only in the form of its poems, but also in their authorship and underlying spirit, the 'Kokinshu' stands as a monument to the general attitudes of the age that produced it. It includes some notable pieces by women, and the studied elegance, wit and technical skill which characterise the collection are hallmarks of a cultivated society with a good knowledge of Chinese literary traditions. Several of these traits appear in the following poem, which is one of the many contributed by Tsurayuki himself.
'Sakurabana,
Chirinuru kaze no,
Nagori ni wa
Mizu naki sora ni,
Nami zo tachikeru.'
(In the eddies,
Of the wind,
That scattered the cherry blossoms
Waves indeed rose,
In a waterless sky.)
Here, strict form is combined with a pleasing succession of sounds. Furthermore, there is a brilliant picture in terms of sea and sky and fallen blossom being blown up and down in the wind.
Even when nature was their theme, Heian poets usually saw it through the eyes of inveterate city-dwellers who were mainly concerned with the private emotional satisfaction of social relations. Heian society was definitely urban, not rustic; and its poetry was man-centred (!- DM), not god- or nature-centred. One 'tanka' by Ono no Komachi, a famous ninth century beauty and poetess whose triumphs must have aroused much envy, expresses this clearly. Komachi's idea is that there is no hatred so bad as self-hatred, and she wrote:
'Utsutsu ni wa,
Sa mo koso arame,
Yume ni sae,
Hitome wo moru to,
Miru ga wabishisa.'
(In reality,
It may well have to be;
But even in my dreams,
To see myself shrink from others' eyes,
Is truly sad.)
The two following 'Kokinshu' poems are probably fairly early works, as their authorship was no longer known at the beginning of the tenth century. Each in its own way is an example of Heian poetry at its best, with technique used to enhance genuine feeling rather than simply for its own sake, and although they both rely on nature to some extent, the feeling they evoke is directed more toward some other person:
'Aki no ta no,
Ho no ue wo terasu,
Inazuma no,
Ware ya wasururu.'
(Can I forget you-
Even for the time it takes,
A flash of lightning,
To shine across,
The autumn fields of corn?)
'Honobono ta,
Akashi no ura no,
Asagiri ni,
Shimagakureyuku,
Fune wo shi zo omou.'
(My thoughts are with a ship,
That slips island-hid,
Dimly, dimly,
Through the morning mist,
On Akashi bay.)
_____
Re: From "A History Of Japan", Cassell, 1972.
Re: From "A History Of Japan", Cassell, 1972.
in defence of haiku